{"id":2888,"date":"2018-03-14T13:04:10","date_gmt":"2018-03-14T11:04:10","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.dapperdanmagazine.com\/?p=2888"},"modified":"2025-10-23T15:06:27","modified_gmt":"2025-10-23T13:06:27","slug":"mats-gustafson-talks-to-filep-motwary","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.dapperdanmagazine.com\/blog\/2888\/mats-gustafson-talks-to-filep-motwary\/","title":{"rendered":"Mats Gustafson talks to Filep Motwary"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"\"
Mats Gustafson, Eric<\/em>, 1991<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Fashion illustrations, landscapes, erotic portraits, plants, floating swans; the broad sweep of his brush transfers the most exquisite garments, senses and emotions, memory and fragility to paper, suggesting an almost poetic arbitrariness. A solemn simplicity even!
\nMats Gustafson boldly uses watercolour to express his personal thoughts, desires or virtues, but most of the time to reflect the work of others through his talent in illustrating fashion. Ever since his multi-chaptered creative journey started around 45 years ago, his majestic work has been featured in the glossiest of the glossies while being exhibited in museums since 1986, as well as in galleries and renowned publications. He is soon to present a series of unrevealed works in Tokyo\u2019s MA2 Gallery. I call him at his wonderful apartment in Sweden where he only arrived the day before, straight from New York.<\/p>\n

FM: I would like to start from the very beginning\u00a0when you left Sweden to pursue your dream to be an illustrator\u2014a pretty daring thing to do.\u00a0Would you consider those first steps and decisions as a kind of rebellion today?<\/p>\n

MG: No, I wouldn\u2019t say I was rebellious at all as anything as such would be out of character\u00a0for me. The only thing\u00a0I can say about that time, if we are talking about the late 1970s and early 80s, is that moving from Sweden to New York was a much bigger step than it is today. I mean the distance somehow seemed longer then. Today people work much more internationally. It was not rebellious of me but it was, maybe, a bit unusual.<\/p>\n

FM: But since we are focusing on the 80s, that period was more about photography than illustration. This is how I mean rebellious\u00a0in the\u00a0timing\u00a0you made your move to New York: the art of illustration was almost fading\u00a0by then. It wasn\u2019t the 40s and the 50s anymore, the golden era of illustration.<\/p>\n

MG: Yes, you are right. When I first started fashion illustration it was already out-dated, in a way, and was considered a thing\u00a0of\u00a0the past.\u00a0Do you know the work of Antonio [Lopez]?<\/p>\n

FM: Yes, of course!<\/p>\n

MG: Well, at the time I discovered his work in magazines that\u00a0truly\u00a0motivated me,\u00a0thinking this is something I would love to do and there must still be room for illustration in fashion today. I had also met him on a trip to New York, prior to moving there, and he was very kind and encouraging. There was a possibility to become an illustrator in New York at the time but, of course, nothing like the\u00a0opportunities\u00a0for photography. Since there\u00a0seemed to be room for more, I tried it and it worked out. Over the years\u2014and I have been working for a long, long time already\u2014people have asked me if there is a need really for fashion illustration, or at other times they say,\u00a0\u201cFashion illustration is back,\u201d\u00a0as if it ever was gone. Naturally, it will never be as big as the years you referred to before, the 40s and the 50s\u2014this has ended.\u00a0On\u00a0the other hand,\u00a0I also think of fashion\u2014its industry and media, the magazines and the way it is communicated\u2014as an\u00a0extremely visual medium and it allows so many different\u00a0approaches\u00a0to be expressed, to interpret or document\u00a0it. Obviously, there is room for illustration as well. Today I think it is a bit difficult also to define illustration. Between photography and illustration, there are so many\u00a0other\u00a0ways of achieving both,\u00a0with\u00a0computer software and so on. Speaking for me, I still work the old way without the use of computers. I stick to my materials: watercolour and paper.<\/p>\n

FM: Were you aware of the New York Fashion scene when you arrived? I wonder how you entered it and how long you waited before your first major commission?<\/p>\n

MG: Before New York, my work had already been featured in a few international magazines, otherwise I don\u2019t think I would have had the guts to move\u00a0there. So, I was already connected\u00a0to\u00a0British and American Vogue, Interview Magazine\u2026<\/p>\n

FM:\u00a0I know it was Grace Coddington who pushed your work to become international. How did everything happen?<\/p>\n

MG: The short story or the long story?\u00a0Well, you know I didn\u2019t study fashion illustration. I grew up in the countryside of Sweden and left for Stockholm to study stage design.\u00a0I had always been drawing fashion or something I had thought of as fashion drawing\u00a0since I was\u00a0a child. It was my favourite thing to do. So,\u00a0I got some of my drawings published in a Swedish magazine. This got the attention of H&M, the Swedish clothing company, and they contacted me and asked me to work with them. H&M was my first client. When I graduated as\u00a0a stage designer I never pursued\u00a0that\u2014I was already working as an illustrator. It was around that time, on a trip to London,\u00a0that\u00a0someone recommended me to Grace Coddington, then a young editor at British Vogue, and a meeting was arranged. I went\u00a0there with some drawings\u00a0under my arm\u00a0and presented them\u00a0to her. She liked them and commissioned me to do drawings for the next collections in Paris. This followed with commissions from US Vogue and Marie Claire in Paris. It all happened during the late 70s.<\/p>\n

FM: What was your childhood like? What observations did you make then that are still with you? And what about your fondest memories as a kid?<\/p>\n

MG:\u00a0I had a wonderful childhood in the countryside of Sweden. I was probably an odd kid who preferred to stay at home and do my drawings, always supported by my parents. There was an understanding and respect\u00a0for\u00a0creativity and art in my family\u2014my mother had studied art.\u00a0But I knew from very early on that moving to a city was the important thing to do and I craved an urban experience. I later moved to Stockholm to study art. I am very happy about my childhood as it offered me a very solid foundation and a great love for nature.<\/p>\n

FM: How have\u00a0your observational and your practical processes changed over the years? Or the way you understand a garment before translating it on to paper? Does it take you long to observe your subject?<\/p>\n

MG: Yes and no. Of course, I have enough experience by now, yet it always depends.\u00a0When I start\u00a0a new job or project, it\u00a0is always like the first time. Maybe intentionally I do that or subconsciously\u2014I don\u2019t know: I sort of want to start everything as a beginner. Perhaps it is fear I have for doing things by routine. I am very productive and maybe because of that I always make it seem like a new challenge. On the other hand, working in this field,\u00a0in a context where things\u00a0are meant to be published, there\u00a0is always a deadline and I am\u00a0used to not having\u00a0much time for each task. Although I have developed a way of working fast, I do go through this\u00a0process of\u00a0really\u00a0questioning everything\u00a0and perhaps struggle\u00a0to\u00a0eventually\u00a0have some progress.\u00a0The\u00a0deadline\u00a0always\u00a0arrives and I have to finish\u2026<\/p>\n

FM: Do you use a live model when you work?<\/p>\n

MG: Not really. Not anymore.\u00a0Way back I used to work with a model.\u00a0Especially\u00a0when I worked for\u00a0French magazines, as they were more old-school back then. If I had to illustrate a fashion story, the process was exactly the same as a fashion\u00a0photo shoot\u2014you know, with\u00a0a model, make-up and hair and everything. But I always preferred working alone. For the model it was really boring to pose for an\u00a0illustrator\u2014at least with me was\u00a0no fun at all.\u00a0I suffered with the models! Photography must be so much more fun where you can move around and\u00a0jump even. I developed a process or method where I work by myself.\u00a0Of course, I still need to have all information and a connection with fashion through photos and videos in order to work with it. My most important professional relationship at this moment is with Dior and I try to see as many of the\u00a0collections, the fashion shows, as possible to get the physical experience and the emotional aspect of it.<\/p>\n

FM:\u00a0What do you think drives your creativity these days, generally speaking?<\/p>\n

MG:\u00a0I think that after working a long time as a fashion illustrator or as a commercial artist\u2014for over 30 years now\u2014I value my own work even more. Of course, I love fashion, and collaborating with others is truly meaningful to me, but it always has been and still is important to work for myself and to also get away from fashion somehow and to explore other\u00a0subjects and different contexts: portraits, the human body, landscapes, nature\u2026<\/p>\n

FM: What worried you then and what worries you now?<\/p>\n

MG: In a way everything! I tend to question everything I do\u2014I always have and I always will and I guess that\u2019s part of\u00a0my\u00a0process. There are concerns like,\u00a0\u201cIs\u00a0this\u00a0the last thing I will ever do?\u201d Or the fear of losing\u00a0my\u00a0\u201ctouch\u201d as an artist. Questions like, \u201cDoes the world need another fashion illustration?\u201d But I think it’s just all neurotic, this worry, and\u00a0does\u00a0not apply or is not relevant to reality. I think the concerns and worries on relevancy\u00a0happen\u00a0to people who take their work very seriously and the bottom line is that I want to do my best all the time. It\u2019s a constant concern to me.<\/p>\n

FM: What role does solitude play in your working process?<\/p>\n

MG:\u00a0For me, solitude turned out to be rather important and actually necessary. I do collaborate but not in the actual creative moments when I am applying paint to paper. It is a very private, isolated moment for me. Everything around the work I see as collaborative\u2014the dialogue with the client, editors and art directors, the ideas\u2026 I love the element of collaboration but, in order for me to focus, I need isolation and solitude as well as time to get into that state where I enter real concentration.\u00a0It would be pointless to compare myself with a photographer, but I assume that the photographer needs to accept the fact that there are always people around him or her. I would not be able to work like that.\u00a0Solitude\u00a0is crucial.<\/p>\n

FM: What about patience?<\/p>\n

MG: I have patience.<\/p>\n

FM: Was it ever important to you and your work to be universal?<\/p>\n

MG: I never put so much weight into what I do. Fashion drawing is a very lightweight form of art and I always thought of it that way. I am not saying it is easy to do but it is related to something\u00a0superficial and something to be consumed and has perhaps a\u00a0short\u00a0lifespan. All of these factors\u00a0I am\u00a0very\u00a0aware of\u00a0yet\u00a0I am always trying to do something that I would like to\u00a0look at the next day or next year or that will have a longer life if possible. Also not to be stuck in time,\u00a0even if time\u00a0implies relevancy\u00a0in fashion.<\/p>\n

FM:\u00a0That\u2019s a very good point. Timelessness!<\/p>\n

MG:\u00a0Well, it is nothing I can justify or know for sure\u00a0if\u00a0I can achieve. I do think that this visual culture can be universal, although it\u2019s a big word\u2014it can be communicated over time and place. Also, it is not only my creativity we are talking about, as my task is to interpret the work of someone else and I have to give credit to that. If my work is universal it is also thanks to\u00a0Raf\u00a0Simons or whomever it is I am fortunate to work with. I see myself as the interpreter or others\u2019 creativity. Hopefully I make sense.<\/p>\n

FM: You use mainly watercolours. How much control do you have over your materials to achieve the right result? Do you allow an element of chance?<\/p>\n

MG:\u00a0To me, the beauty with watercolour is that you need to allow yourself this element of chance. In order to master watercolour you almost have to accept that part.\u00a0Technique per se is something I find less interesting, but watercolour is a medium I’m comfortable with: it suits my temperament\u2014I work fast. It\u00a0doesn\u2019t look so labour involved and it has the quality of sketch, lightness and quickness. Yet for me,\u00a0there is a lot of work to get to that point.<\/p>\n

FM: Which artists do you admire?<\/p>\n

MG: If we focus only on fashion illustration, Antonio was and still is an inspiration.\u00a0Ren\u00e9\u00a0Gruau\u00a0whose work is perhaps the best in the history of fashion art. I have a contemporary colleague who is also a good friend,\u00a0Fran\u00e7ois Berthoud\u2014an excellent\u00a0artist\u00a0whom\u00a0I find very inspiring.<\/p>\n

FM: You are soon to have an exhibition featuring a series of nude drawings at the MA2 Gallery in Tokyo. The work you chose to illustrate this conversation is all linked to your presentation in Japan and these works also mark a very difficult period for you.<\/p>\n

MG: Yes. This work is from the early 90s. It was a very difficult time especially in New York and in Paris or in any big city with a present gay culture. It was the time when the\u00a0AIDS crises culminated. It was devastating. But it was also a time that brought people together, which was incredible to see and to experience. The intense and collective support and the raising of a loud voice that didn’t come from politicians but from the people and the communities that were affected, like the fashion and art world and the music industry… A very powerful time in contemporary history. Trauma turned into activism. MA2 is a small gallery in Tokyo\u2014a beautiful space in the Shibuya district. I had a show there about five years ago titled “Rocks and Trees” where I showed watercolours of nature.
\nThey wanted me to have a show of fashion drawings when I realized it wasn\u2019t as interesting. I really wanted to show the opposite, so I proposed to show work from the time when I started to do nudes and they liked the idea very much. I made these “nudes” in the early 90s as a way for me to deal with the time of crises. It was a very important period on so many levels\u00a0as it was for so many other people.\u00a0When\u00a0you approached me\u00a0for this interview for Dapper Dan\u2019s\u00a0\u201cPoetry\u201d issue,\u00a0the timing felt right\u00a0to reveal a few.
\nPoetry or poetic are not words I would use when talking about my own work.\u00a0I mean, I know people\u00a0who\u00a0write poetry. But for myself, I don’t think in those terms.\u00a0Maybe the closest to poetry I have\u00a0been\u00a0in my work\u00a0was\u00a0when I turned away from fashion and made these nudes and portraits and later when I did nature drawings. I think I wanted to approach tenderness, vulnerability and something more intimate and I guess this is something closer to poetry.<\/p>\n

FM: Would you consider yourself a romantic?<\/p>\n

MG: Yes, I am romantic, hopelessly.<\/p>\n

FM: Is it important to underline a sense of emotion in your illustrations each time?<\/p>\n

MG: Yes, I want to strike some kind of emotion. It can be understated or obvious but it is essentially important.<\/p>\n

FM: You have worked and still collaborate to this day with some of the major fashion houses. How difficult is it for you to translate their world into paper? For example, if I asked you to give me the DNA of\u00a0Yohji Yamamoto, how would you outline your approach to his work? And what about Dior, with whom you recently collaborated on a fabulous publication?<\/p>\n

MG: You have to be able to understand the sensibility of a designer and his or her design, the way they work, and try to communicate those elements somehow and try to interpret them. If I, let’s say, had only liked\u00a0Yohji\u00a0Yamamoto, this ability of understanding would have been very limited. As a fashion illustrator you do have to vary your subjects, not like a chameleon,\u00a0but you need to be flexible and\u00a0open\u00a0to understand different\u00a0DNAs\u00a0as you correctly\u00a0just\u00a0said. I don\u2019t think it is rocket science, but still it requires a certain sensibility, a certain understanding or insight. I would think an editor has to work the same way in order to approach different visions.\u00a0In fashion it is also more than one thing going on at a time. If we are involved in fashion we need to be open-minded, I guess.<\/p>\n

FM:\u00a0Do you strive for complexity when drawing a dress, for example?<\/p>\n

MG: No, the exact opposite:\u00a0I look for simplicity.<\/p>\n

FM:\u00a0There is always a hint of light, here and there. It is never a pompous sense of light but rather a discreet one. What is your view on light, coming from Sweden?<\/p>\n

MG:\u00a0There is light in the watercolour technique. It comes across from the white paper. It is not a very “dense” technique so light is allowed in somehow. But I guess it is also my choice of light you refer to\u2026\u00a0I have done things that look\u00a0darker\u00a0if you want, but yeah, there is light. And yes, coming from Sweden, the light is very precious and very important.<\/p>\n

FM: You also seem obsessed with beauty and elegance. How does it feel to be creatively free through illustrating, to be able to simplify, exaggerate or even abstract reality and still get away with it?<\/p>\n

MG: I find it intriguing and seductive and although it presents the work of others, it also needs to be reflecting my touch.<\/p>\n

FM:\u00a0Why do men play such a small part in your work?<\/p>\n

MG: Perhaps because\u00a0women\u2019s fashion\u00a0is visually more interesting: there\u2019s always something \u201cmore\u201d about\u00a0it, shape wise, colour wise, conceptually. Womenswear\u00a0is more inviting and it appears as a stronger subject. In my head menswear is strangely conservative. But maybe I am wrong, as I don\u2019t follow men\u2019s fashion as much. Perhaps\u00a0I need to re-educate\u00a0myself\u00a0on this matter\u2014perhaps change my approach and become a photographer.<\/p>\n

FM:\u00a0Have you already tried photography?<\/p>\n

MG:\u00a0Yes, way, way back but it was also very obvious it was with illustration I would continue. When we are younger, I think fashion is more sexual. Our interest in it at a young age is more related to sex. Isn\u2019t it? Or is it just enthusiasm? As we get older, our sense of fashion becomes more abstract, and more distant, maybe more sceptical. When I look at\u00a0young\u00a0contemporary photography the presence of sexuality is so amazing and very honest also.\u00a0Looking back when I started it was so conservative and reserved and closeted.<\/p>\n

**Three unpublished nudes by Mats Gustafson, exclusives for Dapper Dan Magazine<\/em><\/p>\n

Nude, at MA2 Gallery, Tokyo, from 17th November\u00a0\u2013\u00a027th December 2017.<\/em>
\n Special thanks to Lauren MacLean\u00a0at Art+Commerce.<\/em><\/p>\n

Interview originally published in Dapper Dan 16, autumn\/winter 2017<\/em><\/p>\n

\"Mats <\/a>
Mats Gustafson, Eric<\/em>, 1991 <\/div> <\/div> <\/div>
\"Mats <\/a>
Mats Gustafson, Karl, 1991 <\/div> <\/div> <\/div>
\"Mats <\/a>
Mats Gustafson, Karl 2, 1991 <\/div> <\/div> <\/div> <\/div> <\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Fashion illustrations, landscapes, erotic portraits, plants, floating swans; the broad sweep of his brush transfers the most exquisite garments, senses and emotions, memory and fragility to paper, suggesting an almost poetic arbitrariness. A solemn simplicity even! Mats Gustafson boldly uses watercolour to express his personal thoughts, desires or virtues, but most of the time to […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[62],"tags":[36,63,38],"class_list":["post-2888","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-issue-16","tag-art","tag-design","tag-interviews"],"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p8QZgE-KA","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dapperdanmagazine.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2888","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dapperdanmagazine.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dapperdanmagazine.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dapperdanmagazine.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/5"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dapperdanmagazine.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2888"}],"version-history":[{"count":8,"href":"https:\/\/www.dapperdanmagazine.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2888\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":2899,"href":"https:\/\/www.dapperdanmagazine.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2888\/revisions\/2899"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dapperdanmagazine.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2888"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dapperdanmagazine.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2888"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dapperdanmagazine.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2888"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}